“Dad? Dad, I have a question?” Mateo said as I tucked him into bed.
“Yes? What is it?” I was on the side of his bed, running my hands over his mass of hair, pulling it into a thick braid and tying the end with a ribbon.
“What happens if you die?”
“What? No, Mateo, no, I promise that’s not going to happen.”
“Nana died. Okay, what happens? I’m the oldest so Harry has to follow me, I’m in charge. What do I do?”
“You don’t have to worry about that, I’m fine.”
“No, really, Dad, we need a plan. Before the plan was Stavvy but he’s dead too. Ok, say tomorrow morning I wake up and you and Efe are both dead. Then what?”
“Mateo, don’t say stuff like that.”
“I’m serious, Dad, don’t treat me like a baby. I’m the oldest, I should know what to do. What if the new babies come and you and Efe are upstairs dead? Then what?”
I was flummoxed then nodded at the intensity of my son. “You would call the police, nine-one-one. Like I taught you in case of an emergency. Tell them the problem and don’t hang up the phone.”
“Then what?”
“In my office, in my desk pad, on my desk are Padrino’s number, Ruby’s home number and Amir, Lucia and Neslihan in Turkey. Get the book. I’ll make sure it’s updated. It also has a list of our lawyer and my job, Efe’s job information, the bank we keep our money in.”
“Get the book. Got it,” Mateo nodded. “What else?”
“Harry would probably be very upset so you would have to be very nice to him, hold his hand. Don’t yell at him. If there are babies here, you should make them go into the family room. Give them some food and put on the TV. Don’t open the door for anyone but Ruby or the police or Padrino.”
“Where would we live? Here in the house? I don’t want to move. I like this house and my school.”
“Padrino or one of his daughters, your aunties, or Ruby would stay here for a while, I’m sure. Take care of you. Efe’s parents live in Turkey with Lucia, so they would visit, probably for as long as they could and then they would sit down with Padrino and decide if they could stay here or move you all to Turkey. I hadn’t thought about it before but that’s probably what would happen. I don’t like this conversation, Mateo.”
“I’m a big boy, Dad, I can handle it. What else should I do?”
“Be good to your brother and any other babies, sisters. Be very, very good to them. Know that I have always loved you and am immensely proud of you every single day. Know that wherever I’m at, in Heaven, I’m watching over you, helping you. Do good things, go to school, be a nice man to people. Be smart. Study hard. Work hard. Travel. Is that good enough?”
“Yeah, that’s good, Dad. I have questions sometimes, I like that you answer them and don’t treat me like a baby.”
“I don’t want to scare you with things though, Mateo. Efe and I are very healthy, we’re fine. You won’t have to worry about us dying. It’s a coincidence that Stavros and Nana passed away within months of each other. A coincidence means it’s not connected, it doesn’t mean anything else like something more bad will happen or that you should be worried, okay?”
“I’m not worried. I just needed to know.”
“Is Harry worried?”
“No, he’s sad that they’re dead but he just keeps on talking to them like they aren’t dead. He’s crazy, Dad.”
“He’s not crazy. He’s just processing it in his own way.”
“Is this my process?”
“Asking these questions? Yes, this is your process.”
“People die, Dad, like all the time. Like Stavvy and Nana and people on the news and then kids kill their parents.”
“Are you going to murder us in our sleep, Mateo?” I teased.
“No,” Mateo laughed. “But if you two become zombies, I should kill you both, right? I mean there’s no cure.”
“Yes, you may kill us both if we’re turned into zombies and there’s no cure. You have my permission.”
“Promise?”
“Promise! Good. Sleep time,” I kissed him on the forehead and Mateo hugged me.
“Smooches, Dad.”
“Smooches.”
Addendum:
To answer where I’ve learned about child rearing at, Annette Lareau, the social science teacher has taught me an immense amount about teaching and raising children through her understanding and design of Concerted Cultivation which she goes into extensive detail about in
Death, people close to us, as a discussion, came about because of close relatives and friends dying in a short period of time, months, and having to go to funerals and hospitals and such. So it was swirling around everything. The children have been kind enough to allow me to record or write down for classes or pieces some of the personal discussions we’ve had and share them. I generally don’t, I tend to draw the line in my life at a separation between public-professional and the personal to those that are around and with me but did not or cannot choose to expose themselves in my work the way I do. Which is why often my work does not include absolute current relationships and I change names. I take several layers of security precautions because frankly, folk are crazy.
Secondly, I was an only child so my mother routinely sat me down and explained the vagaries of life and death and money to me when I was his age and younger (9ish). I was about his age when she explained her life insurance policy, that I would probably go to my eldest aunt and not my grandmother due to health issues if anything happened to her. That it was $100,000 and that my aunt would be in charge of the money. But that my aunt had other children and perhaps wasn’t purely trustworthy so I would have to be patient. And on my 18th birthday to find a lawyer and present my accounting of what had occurred in my time with my aunt, financially and demand an audit.
My father was even more pragmatic about things seen, unseen, possible and implausible but potentially possible, so I tend to be a very direct, honest sometimes to a fault or harshness kind of person. I think it’s important to talk to children as short people who are capable of understanding most things in bite-sized chunks if you’re thoughtful about the explanation.
None of my parents, including my grandmother, who openly discussed my possible sexuality at 12, gave me anything but a wealth of their knowledge and access to their understanding of reality.
I have another blunt discussion with both boys that is hilarious, profane and wonderful that I’ll see if there’s an appropriate question to apply it to. Race, profane words and their playing with adult moronic thinking. It’s classic.
#KylePhoenix
Sensible kid. He’ll know what to do if he finds you both collapsed with food poisoning or whatever.
I didnt know zombies could be poisoned. Good to know. Ha ha.
Oh no. We have running dialogues about him and the others “accidentally” killing us. It’s very dark and hilarious…. and creepy.
True that!
Stepfather. The pic is younger. He was 9ish during that conversation. I’m allowed to use old conversations and old pics in my work by agreement with them.
Now I’m confused! Dad…Efe ….is the stepfather?, you are both asleep upstairs? Who was Stavvy? What babies are coming? Are you messing with us?…seeing if we are paying attention?
It’s part of a memoir.
I don’t know about Stavvy or the babies, but I got the impression that Kyle and Efe are a gay couple and the kids are Kyle’s biological sons. So, Dad and Stepdad.
Ok…that could be…clears up some. Still wondering about Stavvy and babies?
A dead ex and new Asian babies. The discussion of Asian Chinese babies being adopted from China is Race Hilarity Gold.
That’s one deeeeeep conversation!
Children are insane. They just don’t have the physical strength to impose their worldviews.
He was using executive-level thinking to parse out the possible scenarios he might face in an emergency. This is quite mature at any age, let alone a child.
just discovered the children say the…section of Quora, I may post more from writings. Children are very pragmatic when they realize things like life and death, sex and how the car works (he often offers to drive us home.) They automatically assume that you’re comfortable having deep conversations just because you’re talking to them.
Kyle, one thing about children is they have a limited knowledge and make assumptions based on that.
When I was a little girl, I saw cashiers in stores ringing up purchases, and foolishly figured I could do that job — as an 8-year-old. No, I needed a whole lot more than just a knowledge of basic numbers. More years and life experience would help.
When I worked for a commissioner in the U.S. federal government, his young daughter visited on occasion, and once perkily said to him, “I could do your job. All you do is talk to people all day!” What she could not see: his vast engineering background, knowledge of government laws, experience with international energy groups, and analytical skills also came in handy as he made critical decisions at the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC).
Not creepy at all. I love the way you answered him. When I was a bit older than him, I worried constantly about what would happen to my sisters and me if my single mother passed, and I never asked her. My baby sister had a different father, who was not there, and my father was too depressed to be able to take care of anyone. So I spent a lot of time wondering what would happen to her. Your son is very bright and caring - and now he doesn’t have to worry.
I like his persistence !
My husband passed away 4 months ago. I had this conversation with our 9 year old the other day:
Her: Mommy, how did they turn Daddy’s skull into powder?
Me: Well, he was cremated.
Her: Ok, but how?
Me: Well, they burned him.
Her: Oh, like a giant oven of death?
Upon finding out he was passed away before she got home from school that day, “Oh. Good then it didn’t hurt when I hit him. I was worried I hurt him. *giggles* I bit dead daddy”
I hid my knives after that one
Children=Insanity.
I didnt know you were a father
No offense. But one of the reasons why I am deliberately circumspect about mentioning family is because randos online and through public mistake my public-professional work to include absolute entree into not just my personal life but to the personal lives of children and mates who did not consciously decide, as I have, to share about themselves to a mass audience. Therefore I’m cautious, change names, use dated pics, etc.. I’d also like to add I have no idea who the flapjack Andrew Cho is but his attention is proof to my veil pudding.
I had this conversation with my parents when I had my son. His dad never sees him and of course he would go to him automatically if I pass. My parents were very uncomfortable with it, but the situation needs a plan. I was diagnosed with a incurable disease. It can cause death in certain situations. You and your son were very strong and smart to discuss this as I was on the verge of tears talking to my parents about the same thing at the age of 27.
He’s rather…blithe. Sort of oblivious to small things but intensely interested in big things. He’s not ditzy, per se but he's sort of wandering around with his own compass so he can be very casual about very high-level stuff and wanting to discuss it. His pressure is that when he has a question, he damn well wants an answer. And he enjoys word and semantic play so you’re never sure if he’s playing with you or…ditzy.
Interesting questions…. Quite a thinker that young boy, what bothers me though is why a little kid bothers or even knows about zombies.
Sides of buses, complete inside and outside of subway cars, TV ads, magazines, fast food restaurants and then literature and comic books and cartoons of all ages—The Walking Dead—-monsters, vampires, mummies, death, savagery. There is no innocence, there is mere space before inculcation. Part of parenting is being the gatekeeper of those psychic spaces.
I think I may count myself lucky those things aren’t so prominent where I live. I can’t recall having seen ads in or on public transport or fastfood restaurants. My oldest daughter almost 12 just told me she doesn’t have a clue. She knows the word as some kids in her class use it to nickname another kid. Now I’m quite strict with her screentime and what she can watch otherwise she might soon turn into…. I used to read a lot to her and she devours books.. mainly historical novels.
I love this. I love that you respect your son enough to address his concerns and questions honestly. Also, he’s super cute! You sound like a great parent.
Children are great, when they’re asleep or when you’ve got them in that mental sweet spot of they can’t quite comprehend the reality because there are so many moving parts. But the bad part of being a teacher is I know how absorbent children are so I calmly think deluging my own is normal. Until we’re in public and their real questions come out…. this ain’t even a tenth of the surprise conversations I’ve had.
Harry is very smart. Kids who have experienced loss wonder “what if.” Verbal agreements are difficult to enforce if there are any challenges.
I insisted prior to our first child’s birth that we select potential guardians and have wills. We confirmed that the 3 couples we chose were willing to take our children and set up a trust for the life insurance proceeds so they had financial resources to provide for our child(ren).
I had twins the second pregnancy. We asked again if they were still willing to serve as guardians.
The kids are all in high school. I have updated my will to keep them in our community. The kids know the plan.
Writing a will is not morbid. It is pragmatic. Everyone dies so it is important to plan for that. Once the will was written or updated as needed, I don’t dwell on my death. I go about living my life.
You were right to respond as you did & not just brush it off.
My granddaughter, about 6 at the time, asked me what would happen to her if Mummy and Daddy died.
i settled myself into calmly reassuring mode and, having explained that it was a highly unlikely occurrence, went on to list all the people who loved her so much they would want her to live with them. “In fact,” I finished cheerfully, “we’d all be fighting for the chance to have you.”
”well …” she said strictly, “if you’re going to fight about it, I’m going to Auntie Catherine in America!”
That should turn the American Dream upside down for my, purposely, childless daughter and her high flying American husband!!
‘Efe' is a Nigerian right?
Alright! Good to know. Thank you
Lets hope you don't have a stroke, which may give Zombie-like symptoms. That is all your son needs to dispatch you after your permission to do so.
His eagerness is his creepiness. lol
Your child would have a field day discussing death with my very matter-of-fact children who lost two grandparents in 6 months. My three year old likes to inform people that we burned grandma in a fire and now she is ashes in our basement. :P
The boy has a sneaky smile like, “I just asked a zombie question” kind of sneaky ^_^
So glad you answered him straightforwardly. As a child this worried me as well (if both Mom and Dad died) and knowing what would happen was a real reassurance!
Thanks for that instructive, interesting & charming story! Two things. Zombies are subjective. Teaser!
That's how my parents raise me, and I think it’s prepared for many scenarios that a lot of people don't even think about.
Children think about death when they are presented with it through a family member or pet dying. Too often as adults we try to push it away or minimize their questions and so they are left wondering. This is a wonderful way to address the question. And you are blessed with a very wise child.
Are we all going to ignore the kids fresh cut?
lol Literally a war occurred before and after this. He spent years growing his hair out in retaliation.
Ah i see, kids going to be a fighter!
I think I would've established the protocols for “zombie” dispatch - I'd hate to come downstairs groaning, badly hungover, hungry for breakfast - only to catch a crossbow bolt to the face from my super smart overzealous kid.
He liked to stand above us early in the morning with his glowing, humming light saber on and ask if we’re asleep or dead because he’s ready to handle the situation…..
Mr Phoenix I think you are one of the most intelligent parents i have heard ever, with a lot of common sense in the way you handled your sons questions. Most parents would have not answered in such a way so the child knew what needed to be done if faced with this very uncomfortable subject or even not answered the child at all. And your son is a very mature young man. I congratulate you both. Well done!
Thank you. Lots of great people have helped and taught me how to be patient and thoughtful and teach/raise children at a higher level to press them to act and be higher-more mature. Annette Lareau studies and writes about Concerted Cultivation, which is what I use as a guide for how to deal with children.
Sensible and sensitive, bravo.
My only child is 22, and now I realize one of the things I thoughtlessly left out of her education: what to do in the case I were to join the zombie apocalypse! :-)
PS I think maybe you should have clarified what metrics would (or would not) indicate you had become a zombie. This could be an important misunderstanding. :-)
This kid is pretty pragmatic about it. He’s got his head in his shoulders. Good on em.
Never, ever, dress up as a zombie for Halloween.
That kid was thinkin'...! Very mature for his age (altho you don't say how old). Sounds like he'll be prepared for almost anything-and a great story!
OMG he is so cute! luv that picture ;)
Ok you might want to shorten his video game playtime
Mateo, you are one cool little dude! Props to your daddy too!
this reminds me of something I said to my mom when I was a kid! She was tucking me into bed one night when I was 6 or 7 and I started crying. She asked me why and I replied with, “you’re gonna die someday”
A rare child. He prodded into a direction not many go. In exploring death we discover life and in exploring life we end up finding death as the final destination. Even though life and death go hand in hand, like a being and a shadow, only that being is helpless compared to the shadow after the sun is set and the darkness consumes the being. There is resurrection in next cycle but being changed based on its recent 'death experience'. Our life here is a reflection of something far bigger. So, I deduced.
All is a riddle to the man who trails a shadow. For that man walks in borrowed light, therefore he stumbles on his shadow. Mikhail Naimy
This is excellent. One minute I had years in my eyes and then I was laughing my head off at the zombie situation. He's a bright boy, he will go far.
You have one headstrong child. I’ve never heard such a calm discussion about what to do if you die at such a young age, and then to add in that he was glad that you didn’t treat him like a child. I may make some people angry with this but I’d dare say your child has a very old soul. Just my opinion. And you’ve done an amazing job with raising him. Wonderful parenting!
Having taught for decades now, I know that children, especially in such an information-saturated society need filter not exclusion or judgment so there is no topic off-limits or “too adult”, there are simply appropriate times. We started very, very young on the birds and the bees and picture books and calling things by their correct names.
I had a similar conversation with my 5-year-old son. I say him down one evening and talked about the importance of him knowing our address and the police/ambulance line.
This was after I caught him prompting SIRI to call the police. I took this as the opportune moment to discuss what would happen if he found mama unconscious or in trouble.
I was surprised at how well he took the conversation, in all its serious, and didn’t become nervous or anxious about the topic of death or fatality.
Our babies are more intelligent and curious than we can imagine.
I pray that neither of my sons will be the one that will find my body when my times comes.
Love is comfort. Comfort promises the impossible. Empowerment is the loving comfort of a promise that both know is impossible but that you would extend yourself beyond all reality for that person. We tell our children I promise you because love is beyond time and space and concrete reality. It’s not a legal contract or a delusional perception.
Yeah, this must be what is meant by that. It really bothers me, though. Why not just say “I will really try”? or “I really hope so”?
If something is beyond your control and you know it, why use “promise”, as in “I promise you will be accepted into that program” when you are not on the admissions team? Baffles me…
Then love baffles you. Love is standing in between time and space for a loved one.
It’s a doozy I’m trying to compress several conversations into one piece for a memoir/how to on adoption and then edit it for clarity. It was several conversations and I have to explain context more than this one.
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