Its not that hard, I’ve had my own show, The Kyle Phoenix Show, for 13 years now, we’re going into Season 50 in 2022. (Each season is 13 episodes.)
It’s a series of Medium Hards to Very Hards to Extremely Hards.
Medium Hard
Working out the deal with network. And understanding what I wanted from the deal and what was required of me and what I could and could not deliver. Luckily I had a business background, entrepreneurial track record and business education so I could think about my nascent TV show as a product.
Secondly, I’m a big fan of Harpo, Inc. Oprah Winfrey’s company. Notice I didn’t say Oprah, though I think she’s cool, smart, insightful, talented, etc..—-but what really interested me over the years as a small business owner was how she thought about herself and business and how Jeffrey Jacobs, the first President of Harpo thought about business and media.
- Oprah/Jeffrey Rule # 1-Own your work/creations.
- I was working for a non-profit and a TV-cable production crew came to the office and asked to film our special events, particularly a Thanksgiving yearly dinner that had about 300 attended. They explained that they had a deal with the public access network of the borough of Manhattan and would provide all the equipment, production team, etc.. The agency said yes and for about a year, the staff and I were broadcasted, our interviews, all throughout the 5 boroughs, and farther, of New York City.
- I went to the Executive Director, having researched the public access network, Manhattan Neighborhood Network, MNN, noticed they had a Youth Training program (and I was my agencies’ Youth Coordinator) and suggested that along with the magazine he was producing, he give me the go ahead (and maybe some cash) to get my youth into the MNN program and we work out a way to also film the half dozen men’s group—- several I was teaching/facilitating. We could then broadcast them throughout the boroughs—-our event dinner having brought in attention and members—-but these episodes on a continuous basis. Having checked their numbers, MNN, part of Time Warner’s Community Benefits agreement and therefore piggybacked onto Time Warner, RCN and Comcast, estimated about 50,000 to 500,000 viewers per show, based upon borough able subscribers. But MNN picked up all of the production and distribution costs and provided cameras, lights, mics, editing bays, everything. All one had to do was take their free trainings so as to use the equipment properly and safely.
- He said No that he wanted to focus all of the agency’s energy (and money to the tune of $100,000) on a magazine. The magazine was like a gay Black Vogue—-that only 4 of the us 15 staff members, could afford to shop from and folded in less than a year, after 4 issues. It was too high end and didn’t include the men from the groups talking about their lives and the staff, who rebelled, talking about their work. Basically it was a glam masturbation high gloss flop. But it got me thinking about Oprah, O Magazine and Rosie O’Donnell’s failed magazine.
- A year later, I was teaching a vocational class/MS Office Suite and one of my adult students mentioned a friend of his had been on American Idol, didn’t win but had found some success making videos, posting them on YouTube and monetizing them. Tony Robbin’s Personal Power 2 teaches that if an idea strikes you, you must act upon it in 24 hours. What struck me was that I was thinking, watching, contemplating TV/film, video/online classes, teaching—-what would, could that look like?
- This idea came from at the same time, at the teaching job, my supervisor approached me that in the Microsoft/SUNY partnership that sponsored my project, they wanted to use their super high tech 80″ touch screen with high resolution cameras to beam my classes to 30+ SUNY campuses—-Wasn’t that exciting? Yes! I enthused then queried: But how would we get an envelope big enough? Big enough for what? she asked. Big enough to house the 30+ other paychecks besides my current bi-weekly one for the 30+ other sites my classes were being broadcast to? Auntie Oprah called that syndication. And further, how would I ensure that once broadcasting such a set curriculum, I wasn’t simply recorded and fired at the conclusion of the class? And three, since we were there—-how much was SUNY getting per student/tuition for my classes and why was I being paid so little for this “audience”? And fourth, I had started a production company (I had a few months before that, the American Idol friend student was in that class) and was producing YouTube videos, educational ones. What would be my ownership cut, ownership of the classes, re-broadcast rights?
- Yeah, that ended there. But, what it did was prompt me to look at YouTube monetization vs. TV show ownership and monetization.
- I compared YouTube, MNN and a third, that was similar to Vessel (a hybrid of YouTube) and because MNN offered full ownership of all materials and full use of their state of the art Manhattan studio and equipment and staff for first right broadcasts, I went with MNN.
Very Hard
Oprah Rule # 2- Excellence is the Best Deterrent (to sexism, racism, all “-isms”) and the Goal of All Productions
Juggling taking a slew of Production, Camera and Editing classes while working full time and then consulting and then entering back into graduate school around teaching/education.
Intellectually, it wasn’t that hard because in high school I’d written and directed a screenplay for the teen Soap Opera Club and then some of us got into an advanced program at Long Island University Film School for 2 years——so I had some basic to intermediate editing, production experience. (I’ve never shared this before but I overhead several of the teachers talk about how in the class of a dozen I was the most promising/talented. There was another young man, Jagdesh who I thought was just as good as me—-he had a sharp camera and editing eye for a 16 year old. I had an idea years later that from their training and eye for potential that if I nurtured and enhanced with new technology, I might be able to produce a weekly TV show.)
What’s Very Hard was designing a Concept. I originally was set on an LGBTSGL show—-essentially teaching on TV what I had taught thousands in workshops then eventually throw in some interviews. I had plenty of material from facilitating and knew lots of people so it was seemingly simple. But teaching in person and teaching online and then teaching on TV are 3 entirely different but related beasts.
- Teaching in person there is immediate feedback, even if it’s silence. There’s a level of performance and congeniality that works and I've taught adults of all ages, children, teachers professionals, community activists, politicians, etc..
- Teaching online I was able to do from my 2nd bedroom with a web cam and a under $100 editing software (yes, you can still find my initial forays online because they add to the Extremely hard elements, easing that some. I’ll explain later.)
- Teaching on TV there’s no one there. You’re both the teacher, student, audience, critic. I had to learn how to pose questions, ideas AND answer them clearly and succinctly, in one or two ways, like students would. I had to become teacher AND student, in a naturally expressive, non-condescending way.
In 28 minutes.
My show has always been 28 minutes—-which really isn’t 28 minutes, closer to 26. And in those 26 to 28 minutes, here’s what it generally breaks down to:
- Intro and Special Effects (PowerPoint slides, animation, graphics)
- Voiceover During Intro
- Show Title (PowerPoint)
- Episode Title/Explanation (PowerPoint/short intro video)
- Kyle Intro (Lead In to Topic)
- (Maybe) Kyle With Guest (Guest prep is generally weeks to secure and schedule, over a week for pre-production and then directly, one to two hours of in studio taping ahead of video taping/assembly post-production. It’s almost a dry run of the interview where I “teach” them the beats of how we’ll have a discussion on camera. I also have emailed them about 40 general questions—-favorite this and that, best time in your life, how do you deal with burn out, where did you grow up, family compositions, hopes, dreams—-you want fall back questions in case they (or I) go numb or dumb, during an interview. We also talk about things they might not feel comfortable talking about—-I don’t do “Gotcha!” interviews so I very directly ask—-what don’t you want to talk about?—sexuality, HIV status, divorce, child abuse, sexual abuse, felonies, alcoholism—-stuff I might know or they might say on TV because TV AND THE INTERNET ARE FOREVER. I stress this about 50x for weeks. Also all legal forms have to be signed and filed before filming. I also am constantly aware of this in my own head as I talk about myself, personal thoughts and ideas, feelings, political thoughts, religious ones, jokes. It is literally the most conscious form of talking/performing/teaching I’ve ever done. It’s like dancing with a loaded gun in front of an audience of blindfolded people——I could accidentally say something about someone and “shoot” them—but the audience also has loaded guns—-so if I say something they might shoot me—-so I have to qualify everything, everything, everything, I say on TV. Everything.)
- Kyle Teaching Material (Kyle Raw Video talking to Topic)
- PowerPoint Slides and Lower Third (Name, Title, Email for Kyle and Guests)-Pre/Post-Production (it can change in style, color, titles—-Host, Author, Topic of that specific show.)
- Perhaps a Supporting short video (copyright issues/cost)
- Soundtrack music (I eventually bought Royalty Free Music to use)
- Slides with Voiceover (optional)
- Closing (Kyle Raw Video, perhaps Set Up for Parts 2, 3, 4, etc. or Next Week’s Episodes)
- Closing Soundtrack—-might be different from opening
- Closing Graphics
- Production and Copyright Slides (The Omni Group, Inc.—-my company)
- Staff Involved Titles/Credits (sometimes just me, Guests, Camera folk)
- MNN closing materials
I’ve got it down now but the above took about 2–3 years to get a workable system, a level of professionality, accurate software usage, understanding how to gel an idea in my head, to laying out as an episode or series of episodes. What works and doesn’t work and why.
Very Hards
Pre-Production/Post-Production
You initially think pre-production, getting all of the pieces together and not forgetting anything, is hard—-that’s how you know you’re in Basic Level land. But soon you realize that to get to Intermediate Level land you have to sort of redo all that you might instinctively do in Basic Land.
In Basic Land, you plan to press the record button, all the actions before then. In Intermediate Land you start looking at the show/episode from the inside, rather than the beginning. Advanced Land you look at the season, how episodes flow together, answer each other, support one another and then you get into technical minutiae and editing strategies.
Intermediate you consider the Production as a production first and then assemble the show. Advanced you already have down pat how to assemble the show, how to piece together a Production and you’re looking at the grand scheme of a season, a year.
Now in Advanced, after 13 years of 52 shows a year, I have templates set up—-for nearly everything.
I have computer File Folder Templates set up with 8 to 10 Folders so that I just copy and paste the Folder set and then start my Premiere Adobe editing software file in there.
I then also have my Seasons marked out, dated and then Episode numbers Folders and then a supporting Directory on each episode with info, facts, notations. If I ever learn how to time travel, I will go back and set myself up in 2009 with these systems, it will save years of headaches.
Other problems include equipment. I went with MNN because everything is state of the art and they have a well trained Production staff to help at a moment’s notice. Cameras, mics, lights, editing bays, first Final Pro and now Premiere (which several years ago, I just went ahead and bought a subscription for—-so I can edit at home).
Which leads us to Very Hard # 1
Very Hard # 1-Editing
It seems easy in theory, even when you’ve taken some classes/lessons. But every 28 minutes to 48/56 minutes of broadcast time takes a set amount of time sitting at a computer editing. 28 minutes, if I want it to be good is 10+ hours. At the MNN studio you can set reservations to use their editing bays in increments of 4 hours or longer if no one shows up with a reservation after yours. You can now see why I eventually stopped trying to juggle my schedule and their reservations, alongside dozens of other producers/production teams, and just bought the Premiere software, now part of an Adobe software subscription.
The upside is my software is always automatically updated or glitches fixed because it comes directly from Adobe. The con is $30+ a month for something I need for production but don’t own.
Editing is an art and a software science. I’ve been hardcore at Premiere for about 5 years now and I use maybe 20–40% of it well. Each season I try to add in a new feature, trick, to simply get better. But the basics are demanding enough. It’s like a digital puzzle or collage that you’re trying to assemble. You end up mumbling to yourself a lot and being really, really, insanely proud of transitions and video sweeps and very, very small things that no one but you and another editing geek will see.
But over time the final product, if you’re doing it yourself, becomes noticeably better.
Very Hard # 2-Production
Putting together the concept of a show is easy at first—-”I’ll just teach sex and sexuality on TV like I do in person!” Kyle said innocently.
The function and action and outcome(s) are 3 different worlds.
Very Hard # 2-Concept Function
Yes, I sit down—-I have planning journals for everything—-and I I figure out Episodes #600 through #625. Right now I'm in Post-Production on a chunk of in-series mini-series titled—-LGBTSGL Issues:
- HIV-6 episodes (already aired)
- Domestic Violence-4 to 6 episodes (to air starting January 2022)
- Drugs/Alcohol 2–4 episodes (to air starting February 2022)
- Mental Illness 2–4 episodes (to air starting February/March 2022)
- Closetedness/Being DL 2–4 episodes (to air starting March 2022)
- Financial 10–13 episodes (to air March through June 2022)
- Entrepreneurship 4–13 episodes (to air June Through September/October 2022)
- Open/Flexible, Interviews & Repeats 13 episodes (to air through December 2022)
Off the bat, as I was prepping the outlines and materials for the above episodes I ran into scheduling problems. I’ve been reaching out to people, especially post-extreme COVID, to interview—— friends, former coworkers, teachers, activists, social workers, scientists, etc.. I also belong to a chamber of commerce and networking groups so I’m always waving the banner of Let Me Interview You! I’ve gotten great responses and interviews back.
Interviewed a good dozen and then there was a technical error with Adobe that trashed the video but Adobe offered to fix it with their special video scrubbers. of course this problem happened to not just my 20+ hours of footage (Interviews I generally do 2 hours to get every morsel out possible, to be divided into 4 full episodes and also broken down into dozens of pieces on a variety of subjects (1–3 snippets).
COVID Effects
But COVID changed some of my scheduling and in particular one interview subject I want to do, who has a COVID related business—-so I want to get her on-air in a relevant timeframe to COVID and the omicron variant. Which means that scheduling from November of LGBT Issues has to change.
BUT
The Next Season long chunk after the in-series on LGBT Issues, was a maxi-series planned focused on Financials from Budgeting, Checking Accounts, Savings, Roth IRAs, Insurance, Car Leasing, Home Buying Programs (FHA), 401ks, Taxes (With H&R Block Regional Manager Interview—-must air before April 15th), Investing, Stock Market Overview, How To Buy Stock, Being an Entrepreneur, etc., etc.—-breakdowns, explanations, videos over 16 episodes.
Now COVID (at least 4 episodes with Entrepreneur Interviews) by March? (Entrepreneurship/Entrepreneurs in-series mini-series was to blossom from the end of the Financial after April 15th.)
Truncate Financial? Switch around LGBT Issues? Does it make concept sense to start on LGBT Issues so seriously, drop for Entrepreneurs, go back to Financial and then back to LGBT Issues?
This makes more sense when compared in the Very Hard area of Marketing, Publicity, Advertising where you might want to post your show’s schedule, to attract more viewers, so you can’t deviate. With MNN they make up a schedule based upon the submission of the digital file so it’s posted. Which means if I say something is Part 3 of 4, Part 4 should follow the following week.
Interviews
COVID also affected the MNN studio itself in that it has intermittently shutdown, opened limited hours, shifted its open hours, shifted its’ class times and therefore staffing and studio availability. Which means that I’ve had to purchase cameras and film at school/work or at home, which affects the quality of the year (s) of COVID timeframe episodes. I can borrow out camera and lighting set ups from the studio but that involves more scheduling time for a Field Unit. however I have looked at a flex share/office rental company near the studio, which is a few blocks from Columbus Circle, that I might be able to take the Field Unit to, interview the guests and return the Field Unit without having to worry about the safety of thousands of dollars of equipment for an extended period of time.
Panel Shows/Presentations and Speeches in Larger Venues
I’ve done two large/panel shows at a school conference I was presenting at and then at a community presentation. Again, difficult because of placement of cameras and sound and lighting, mainly. Another large gathering I did for a book presentation, there was literally a hurricane/rain storm that slowed us getting there so we lost a third of the audience (for their patience, I just gave away 20+ books) and then one of the 2nd camera didn’t work properly. On top of that for every show, everyone besides me must sign a release. The book presentation was on LGBTSGL sexuality so the audience was almost 1/3 on camera and 2/3s off camera in regards to their own personal privacy (I always repeat over and over and over—-the internet and TV are forever—-once I broadcast it and/or upload it, it’s been recorded somewhere else so someone else will re-post it). One of my students was acting as camera and sound so we had to essentially film from my side/shoulder to show the audience (that we could show) and me. Eventually in editing what I did was throwing in a lot of titles and pictures and short videos about what I was talking about to compensate for the video not being the strongest.
However the downside is that I would still have to provide additional cameras, in interviews I try to do a 3 camera set up, which is completely possible at the set up studios but difficult to create with lighting, cameras, staging in an elegant but non-set up for that purpose, office. In an interview, I’m trying to set up with something that looks like the below in the smaller studios. Camera 1 on me, Camera 2 on the guest—-both exclusively and then Camera 3 on both of us in a medium to long shot. It’s so static because then all I have to do in Editing is sync up the three videos—-Premiere is basically like a Lego set up—-you layer pieces of video, titles, sound on Tracks.
So I put Camera 1 on Video Track 1, Camera 2 on Track 2 and Camera 3 on Track 3—-the audio sets itself accordingly in order to the Audio Tracks. Then all I do is cut the pieces of the video until they all start at the point where the talking starts and then let it run and make cuts (to switch from me to the Interviewee’s face) or to Me exclusively or two the two of us. Which of course makes it easier to throw in titles and other supporting video clips when referenced by either of us.
But though the above sounds Basic (and to some degree it is) the art of the work is to consider how you, the audience see and experience the interview, capturing the speed of conversation, throwing in video referencing clips and hitting marks of faces when and when they don’t speak so that it looks like an interactive conversation that you’re witnessing. Getting that all to gel is where you move to Intermediate and Advanced levels.
The larger studio looks like this—-2 large studios and then 2 smaller ones for reservations—-which I might use for a large group interview and then I have to make sure I have extra camera people and a director to run the Master Board in the Control Room (which is in another space from the studio but looks like that person in the bottom of the picture).
Very Hard Addendum-Technology
It is always changing and advancing—-great in the sense that the studio and cameras are always up to date, trying in that I have a whole content library to drag along into the future. This digital snafu happened from the mediums we use changing:
- Digital
- Mini-DV
- HD Disc
- Cameras (the studios are top of the line, I’ve had to buy a couple of good ones and use webcams when not in the studio)
- Laptops/Storage. The pieces of a TV show/video/film take up a lot of space. A lot. Right now a finished episode—-with video, sound and titles (all of that is like more and more on a breakfast plate) increases the “weight”/size of the final video. Every episode is generally between 1–2 gigs, depending on the complexity of the layers involved. This doesn’t take into account the pieces themselves which are inside of the 8 Folder system plus video divisions for YouTube, elsewhere.
- Video-TV vs. Online-the working audience theory being that TV and film and video are different attention mediums. My show comes on 1130pm Thursday—-you sit down and have an expectation that it will end at midnight (which it does.) But a video online has a different attention expectation—-I can upload a 28 minute show and over time it will get watched by dozens, hundreds, over years—-thousands. But in the short term, it has to be cut into bite sized pieces. Those pieces are generally 1 to 3 or longest 8 to 15 minutes. (We keep experimenting with that.) But that means that the size of the Folders increases as there are several versions of each episode. One episode can have a Folder for just itself that is anywhere from 2–5 gigs, which means that yes, I have several large storage devices and then I have to back all of that up. Most of us buy LaCie drives. Several, eventually.
Very Hard # 3-Concept In Action/Production Issues
Host Mitigations
There’s a really great YouTube guy, funny, insightful, has good TV energy, speaks clearly, BUT he giggles/laughs nervously. A lot. Throughout his whole 7–12 minute segments. It becomes noticeable because it isn’t casually or occasional.
Over the years, and I even had a speech/voiceover coach go at and give feedback my work—-I have learned to speak in sentences and paragraphs—-cutting out as many “Ums” and “Uhs” as possible. Sounds easy. It is not.
- Speaking clearly from the diaphragm to the mic.
- Speaking fast enough to move through a script/teleprompter but slow enough to be understood.
- Speaking reasonably good English with reasonably good grammar.
TV/online heightens everything people see and hear about you because they are hyperfocused on you.
Like. The word like has been destroyed by the internet. It is literally like the KKK to me, especially when teaching. I hear it CONSTANTLY from people on subways, buses, walking, talking loudly on their cellphones.
It has become a cultural mitigation and placeholder for damn near everything because everything is like that time I like went down the road and I was like this is like the wrong road and I was like upset because I was like late and I didn’t want to be like late my first day of work because I wanted them to like like me and think I’m like responsible.
I stop students from speaking, throw out papers and assiduously avoid using like as much as like possible. So when outlining a TV script, I have to not just Grammarly it but also really think about alternative words and phrases, synonyms and antonyms. And enunciation and pronunciation. It’s even more difficult when you’re being videotaped because speaking/presenting in that way is similar to being in the front of your head projecting, and at the same time, consciously editing, as you hand the front of your head the next words.
What I’ve Learned Hosting
It is a slightly odd, presentational way of presenting-speaking because you have to think about pacing, clarity and editing. (Sometimes I have to edit on a word, a breath, the end of a point—-so it helps in post-production if I’m clear in being taped.) But I have to think about these things while speaking on camera.
Wholly projecting presence but detached and (mental) editing, being and bringing forth a sentence, idea, thought—-a step, a beat, sentence ahead—-knowing where I’m going with a full thought, what I’m going to say—-is a skill that has taken me years to learn and I’d say I’m at Intermediate now. If you watch really good, Advanced interviewers, you’ll know it because it seems like a casual conversation to them but then watch it a second time, and mark how they steered the conversation and questions, not just from notes but from listening and going off-script.
For a while you’ll sound false to yourself as you’re editing or helping edit your footage—-suddenly you’re of 213 minds because it’s You, you’re listening to You and considering Yourself as you know You videotaped was considering you now, considering yourself and You may've done things then to help You now make You then look and sound better.
And it gets even freakier because there might be a time lag from when you taped to when you edit—-sometimes as long as months before you use footage. I am digitizing mini-DV taped episodes and classes (I tape about 80% of the classes I teach) and there are times, honest to God, I see it’s me but I have no idea when that happened, what the topic was, that I even did that topic BUT (a writing mitigation), you suddenly know YOUR thought on the topic and what you would say and 99% of the time, it’s what you do say on tape. It’s not a memory, it’s when you see YOU and your thought processes on tape. Which can awe, marvel and freak you out at the same time.
Appearance
I’ve tried to always wear a jacket, tie, dress shirt. Sometimes I’ve tried to go casual—-sweater, casual shirt and it doesn’t look right depending upon the topic. Know your best colors, no stripes, no lines, it creates moiré
Moiré pattern occurs when a scene or an object that is being photographed contains repetitive details (such as lines, dots, etc.) that exceed sensor resolution. As a result, the camera produces strange-looking wavy patterns, similar to the ones below:
Go for neutral or green screened backgrounds that complement your outfit. And also tell your guests how to dress. But know that Green Screen—-dropping in a background—- adds to editing time so clean, neutral backgrounds are easier.
Concept Outcome
Every show is never what I imagined it to be or become. However over the years that’s gone from a head cocked sideways puzzlement (every tic you’ll scrutinize of yourself to remove—-and establish this weird other persona that watches yourself and self-corrects) to the quality of the raw footage, it gets better and better and better as I assemble the pieces in Premiere timelines and match colors and palettes and sounds and seamless video snippets and snatch out great micro-scenes. It/you will get better. You just won’t see it until you have work to look back upon, 2–5 years later.
Concept Outcome-Financing
Though it’s through public access, which means that the cable company—-Time Warner, now Spectrum——-uses some of its’ profits from cable paying customers in a region, here a borough, to build a studio for public productions (to facilitate free speech, non-hogging and controlling of all airwaves due to technology and money), there are still costs.
- The equipment-in studio cameras, mobile hand held cameras, monitors, decks for tapes, etc.
- studio lights
- mics
- staff
- computers
- Premiere program
- editing bays-time
- electricity (lots of electricity)—-all of that you have to figure into the cost of your TV show.
- Plus time (28 minute episodes for me)—-how long the show is and then the approximate time of how long pre, post production takes and what the billable hours are by talent and staff.
Show Valuation-The Business of TV
The above is where you have to pay attention as a Producer/Owner of the show. What does it overall cost? Whose paying for what? What is a company expense and therefore a deduction?
Further, and deeper, to the future——what does a production/episode cost?
Totaling equipment usage, staff time (pay rates) and all of the soft costs (software, editing bays, travel, etc..) plus any associated costs to guests (I try to do a pre-dinner with them, some shows put folks up in a hotel overnight) and then the salary of Hosts, Producers, etc..
Again, Harpo, Inc./Oprah helped me in a Fortune magazine article where they pressed Oprah to example some business acumen and she explained the things she understands directly and broadly and the other things she relied on Jeffrey and others to codify. One point was about the annual budget for TOWS because the budget is attuned to the valuation of each episode which goes back to how much they can be sold/monetized for.
To Harpo, they were initially doing 220 shows a year, each contract negotiation forward from 1986 was to do less shows but for the same production fees thereby increasing the value/worth of each episode. So they started at 220 episodes and twenty five years later produced 130+ but for the “same” valuation. (She said to her production President that $50 million a year was a good ceiling to not go over—-which if you do the math backwards means that in 1986 an episode was “worth” $227k. By 2009, only producing 130 shows, the valuation was $385k+ per episode.)
It is cheaper to do in-studio shows than outside of studio location shows because of all of the time, people and transporting of equipment. When you watch TV—-fiction or not—-look at how many shows occur indoors or outdoors (Star Trek is a great example) and even over a season you’ll see that to “go” somewhere is a limited amount of episodes (which is why studios build realistic city streets/Western towns, etc.—-the whole Tyler Perry town he’s built on his studio lot——because that reduce costs. Oprah being in studio, in Chicago most of the time meant that owning the building lowered the associated costs. And now you see why COVID forced so many shows to shutdown and me to revamp how and where I filmed. yes, we all lost quality but we didn’t increase costs.)
I had to figure this all out, particularly when working out the Vessel deal, looking at YouTube and Amazon and others.
- What’s my number?
- What’s my shows specific episodic value? Therefore I know what is a profitable deal to make or not.
- What this also presses me (and others) to do, know, see—-is how long can an enterprise/TV show run for?
Over time it should become cheaper to produce but can you get the same valuation back on the original content library plus/as new content? The trick then becomes creating perennial content or it’s called “evergreen”.
(If you have a favorite TV show that was on a long time and then announced it was ending—-they ran the numbers and sussed out it would cost more to produce or not break even, or more commonly, the cast/talent and team, becomes more expensive to pay the longer it goes on—-you generally start at one rate and get more expensive over contractual time—-so it’s cheaper to end and then move into selling reruns, syndication, selling/licensing to a streaming platform, DVDs, selling or leasing to cable TV.)
Now you both understand Oprah’s why to do 100 Best shows, why to do the Discovery deal for her OWN channel, and how I’ve been able to mentor that down to my own production system and show.
Plus that gives you insights to how I reconsider each contract negotiation from the first of 10 years from 2009, to 5 years and then considering 5 to 10 years forward. Plus the further consideration of expanding the format from 1 day to 5 days for some, part or all of the future 10 years—-probably divided up into (as Oprah did) 2–3 year multiple consecutive contracts).
A sitcom, drama, talk show, etc. produced and shown over a network (which is made up of affiliates (the local stations around the country) generally runs low range (reality shows—-under $250k to $1 million per episode. A sitcom $1 to $2 million and a 1 hour drama $2–$5 million per episode. Cable shows can go as high as $10 million per episode.)
How does that translate to videos/online shows and public access created materials?
As I mentioned before my friend Banu Suresh and her show YogaXPress have launched hundreds of episodes on YouTube. When she or I made our agreement with YouTube, for our content to be monetized—-we signed an agreement not to reveal what they going monetization rate was per click, subscriber, etc..
So I can’t tell you specifically for YouTube.
What i can tell you is that her show and mine use some of the same set ups, technology, staffing etc. so each episode has a valuation of approximately $35k to $100K. It is considerably lower than network TV shows because of two factors
- Being on cable TV. Cable isn’t paid for in the same way that network TV or a streaming service )the closest comparison) is paid for. You pay your Spectrum bill——say $100 a month. That money is divided amongst Spectrum as the carrier company and then down to each individual channel. HBO, Showtime, ESPN, CNN, Discovery, A&E, Lifetime, and other big channels that bring in the most people/watchers/subscribers—-have the highest divisional rates. So HBO gets like $5 a month from your $100. Discovery gets between $5 to $8, and when Harpo, Inc. owned 50% of 1 of its 8 channels, that rate was divided down again. It came to about $150 million a year to OWN, Oprah’s network—-which is why when Discovery merged with Scripps and bought back the stock/ownership of OWN, in exchange, she/Harpo, Inc. got a CEO position to run the network at $70 million in salary a year after a buy out of $70 million for each year contracted year from 2009 to 2023. Yes, from about 2009 to 2021, you were directly/indirectly paying Oprah every month when you paid your cable bill. The way this works out for public access and other shows on cable is that advertisers pay to have their Pepsi, Ford, Downy sheets next to shows that are drawing the most eyeballs/subscribers your cable box rats you out about what you’re watching and when. Network TV has a set of people around the country who have a Nielsen box in their homes and those 100,000 to 1 million people—-their viewing habits are recorded and that’s how TV ratings are reconciled).
- Lack of advertisers on public access. The exchange for the studio being paid for by Spectrum (out of all cable subscribers monthly payments) is that the 4 channels—-through MNN here in NYC/Manhattan—-are advertiser free. Essentially leveling all of our shows to NOT being subjected to objective measurement about what is or is not popular by “ratings”. Which means that things that are important—-like political votes, community board meetings, etc. aren’t paired/competing against the ratings of The Walking Dead. Which gives my show and YogaXpress time to be any kind of show, develop an audience and not be beholden to the cable companies ratings system nor advertisers whims, of financial support or not. However as advertisers (and your cable payments) are how Spectrum says afloat—-Spectrum doesn’t pay us directly nor indirectly—-like they might a channel—-instead they set up a studio with staff, as a form of write off deduction. (This gets into a deeply media murky area with the advent of the internet, streaming and cyberspace and YouTube like platforms, which I understand but is difficult to explain the next levels of. Suffice to say, you, Banu or I, own our shows and agree in contract form to first run new episodes there, MNN, before any other media outlet.) The space allowed our productions is that only a small number have moved to pay for view cable or network TV or cable TV so we’re so infinitesimal on the budget line and for the public good that we aren’t paid for nor bought as a regular TV production entity. But we don’t reap the financial rewards from the advertisers and channel in direct episode payments in exchange for free use of the production facilities (which is generally most of the operating expenses besides talent of any production). Hence why Banu is experimenting with her show’s library on YouTube.
I’m at best Intermediate in the understanding and implementation of the business of the media business but from Harpo, Inc. and other materials, and asking a billion and one questions at the studio and other studios—-I’ve learned a lot about how to steer my show. It has also helped that I have had the publishing business off and on since I was a teenager—-so I’m familiar with products, royalties, licensing, etc..
Very Hard # 4-Concept Outcome-Monetization
How to make a profit off of the TV show, especially when the product starts as public access?
It is possible, as of this writing, I know of myself and two other producers, who do so. One, got his show picked up by a cable channel and another regularly goes to night clubs, tapes the parties and broadcasts it, for a fee. The third way is to adhere to the contractual agreement—-and give the network first broadcast rights—-meaning just that—-when the final edit is done, that video is broadcast first on he MNN channel. Then you can use it for whatever you want. They’ve been encouraging producers to put their shows online—-I have a friend Banu Suresh, who does a yoga show—-she’s done it for years and years so she has hundreds of episodes. Her grandchildren helped her digitized it all and post it all and then upload it all to YouTube. (I directed two episodes and am in a third).
The studio encourage and even teaches how to start a YouTube Channel. Luckily or rather fortuitously, I started mine before I started the TV show in 2009, the first episode broadcast the last week of 2009 but I already had a few dozen videos uploaded to YouTube.
The problem is that a channel on YouTube is profitable at big numbers—-over 100k to 1–10 million views—-not huge profitable, but you start making a few hundred, thousand dollars, a month.
The other option in about 2015–216 was signing up with a hybrid “studio” platform called Vessel, started by one of the men who started Hulu. If you posted on them before you posted on YouTube they paid higher rates and you just had to move your audience to them first and then post on YouTube afterwards (as YouTube didn’t have a first run contracted agreement—-which it sort of can’t because of so much TV and movies on YouTube. YouTube is the Black Hole of copyright and legal first run posting—-most productions now getting ahead of the pirated curve by posting clips or their whole shows themselves.)
The deal with Vessel fizzled for me because my show is on cable and therefore a different measuring metric than clicks online, so it was impossible to accurately measure how many “viewers” I had as easily as they could other YouTube creators. Upwards of 500,000 is great——-if it had been online—-but cable is still a different medium than online—-Vessel hadn’t figured out how to sustain itself with YouTube creators, much less TV productions.
I opted to focus on the show production and then book-publishing production and then/now have come back around to video production because creating a video is like creating a short TV episode. It’s easier to create a full TV episode or Vlog—-video blog—-say I turned this post into a 10 minute video—-and then chopped it down.
It’s also easier now that I have a bigger content library. The vessel deal started negotiations when I had about 200–250 episodes. Yes, a lot but always about 10% ends up being repeats, I’d just started out so I was on the job learning—-leaving me with a viable 100+ episodes. Great for TV rebroadcast but not for online. A better metric would be over 1000 episodes at prime for that kind of platform n order to give a breadth of material to an audience to sustain interest and make a profit.
Also the show was being rebroadcast on other stations and through satellite so I had to concentrate my attentions to TV/cable first.
Vessel eventually fell apart as a company because they couldn’t get enough of us producers to pull in enough of our audience to sustain a company——that had started on $125 million dollar loan. Remember they had to immediately pay producers for their clicks. Yes, perhaps they should’ve pulled in 1000 or more of us independent producers to rapidly and massively expand their content library categories but they went all in to YouTube creators. Bet. And lost.
Streaming Platforms
The next venue is of course streaming, which means Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.. The problem is, similar to the problem Oprah Winfrey/Harpo, Inc. was facing, is that she had 4600+ episodes of TOWS, I have 600+ now (to the end of two to three more contract cycles and changing the broadcast times to 5 times a week—-about 2000+ episodes) in our content libraries.
Harpo had absorbed all of the costs and yes, monetized (sold) the show for 25 years, first run to ABC Cap Cities, distributed through King World, both bought by Disney/Paramount/Viacom. The question becomes when it’s no longer on a network (she was on ABC) how to re-sell it again?
And that is my overall question/planning.
(That’s where about $1.5 billion of her net worth is held, the TOWS show episodes—-$385k multiplied by 4651 episodes.)
Harpo’s answer was to partner with Discovery to create the OWN network and rebroadcast some shows and re-package others into 100 “Best of” Episodes—-and then sell that to Discovery Network to broadcast on the channel, she half owned. As Harpo In. geared up into a production company, no longer exclusively reliant on TOWS or Dr. Phil, Dr. Oz, Nate Berkus, Rachael Ray—-they went on to produce over 50+ more and counting (which is how most production companies survive—-make more content, sell more content.)
This gave Harpo a chance to make more shows, more movies, expand beyond just Oprah, which they did.
Of course that $500 million Discovery took as a loan to float them for several years (paying Harpo, Inc. yes, for Oprah led and created content, several times over. Kind of like Walmart making it’s own generic food brands and selling them in Walmart's and then paying another, smaller company (Harpo) for making the ketchup.)to help didn’t hurt.
While I may not have deep pockets to market/resell my shows, I can take some pages out of Harpo’s playbook and be thoughtful and selective about which shows I put where and for what kind of rebroadcast, as well as create other supporting fare/shows/videos to funnel an audience back to a Kyle Phoenix hub where the episodes will be. That’s the extremely hard part—-so far I have several blog sites and video channels—-I work in layers over time—-layering in blogs, books, videos, TV show episodes, eventually yes, it will be thousands, because it’s numbers that drive numbers.
Very Hard # 4-Strategic Planning
I started doing detailed planning books, charts, graphs probably around 2010–2011 and then got super detailed over the years, until finally I brought in Michael Gerber’s E Myth system to do a complete company overhaul, evaluation and SWOT in 2017 through 2018. Doing so led to having a company plan that expanded to 2020 and then another formal overall plan-review in 2025.
What I’ve done, through lots of study, learning about the TV/streaming market is to look at creating a hybrid form. Most shows do so but not so directly.
This post/article/blog will be repurposed—-and if you’re starting from the beginning, what I wish I knew then——the E Myth process—would be to create a single thing/product—-say “How to Bake Chocolate Chip Cookies” and create it along a systematic plan of:
- a blog,
- a tweet,
- a short set of baking and review videos,
- a long form TV show episode interview and comparing cookies
- and segment interviewing people about cookies.
Now imagine those 5 things all uploaded at once to 5 separate platforms or even more? That’s what I’m doing now, but from the backend and to some things breaking them down to those formats.
What happened was I started videos in Kyle Phoenix Videos on YouTube in 2009, The Kyle Phoenix (TV) Show in 2010 and then collected all of my workshops/TV notes into paperback and eBooks, and published those in 2013—-which have sold nicely. Simultaneously creating about 3000+ blogs/articles on multiple platforms from 2009 to Present.
(I have a paranoia/concern about any of my businesses, notwithstanding to contracts/agreements—-a platform—-Amazon, YouTube, others, being able to shut me down. What I generally do is I check out several, settle on one to make a contractual agreement to, but keep another 2 waiting in the wings to move my content over to.
I recommend you always backup your work and be prepared to do the same. I got serious about this 2015 to 2018 when I saw how if I’d gone all in to Vessel from the initial discussions, I would’ve been screwed in terms of labor reproduction and potential revenue loss.
Also you have to consider international services that are mimics of the Americanized/Western ones. Often YouTube videos are shared through several continents—-which is a good thing—-as long as you are thoughtful about the value of the content you post. I’m on sites all over the world now, by my hand and by the hand of others reposting.)
Extremely Hard-Synergy (Branding and Fame)
Starting small and linking everything helps tremendously so though I can’t directly advertise anything for sale by me or my companies on The Kyle Phoenix Show, I can use all of the other products to link back to one another:
- Kyle Phoenix Videos (YouTube, Vimeo, Hi5, Metacafe, Sclipo, etc..)
- The Kyle Phoenix Show (MNN-Spectrum Cable and satellite TV/cable; Kyle Phoenix Website)
- Kyle Phoenix paperback and eBooks (on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Goodreads, Google Books, etc..)
- Kyle Phoenix Blog (Blogger, Word Press, Kyle Phoenix Website)
- Kyle Phoenix on Quora
- Kyle Phoenix on Medium
- Kyle Phoenix on Reddit
- Kyle Phoenix Podcasts
- Kyle Phoenix Newsletter/Magazine
- Kyle Phoenix Website
When you start production on a TV show you’ll want a dozen ways to reach out to, capture and reward your audience for staying with you. I have a couple thousand email addresses that I regularly send out to using Constant Contact as well as about 20,000 followers, and about 10 million reads/views on a variety of sites.
It takes time but the better you build a system, the more people can click through for different kinds and depths of content and that feeds back into marketing (you want to be the top of Google searches. I am. It took awhile) which feeds back into an audience for your TV show.
Branding
Yes, you’ll notice many things have my name on it and even the same or similar pictures. The temptation is to create wild, fun, fantastic names for stuff but from a marketing standpoint, you want a fan/audience member to connect to you and be able to find you. I can see through several dashboards folk from all over the world simply typing in my name or a piece of it and finding content. That’s what you want—-name files with your name, name shows and productions with your name above the title, name newsletters as a representation of yourself.
Fame
This is an odd one. I’m often recognized around NYC for multiple reasons. One, there aren’t many people working in the LGBTSGL community like me who are Black, out, and have books, a TV show, etc.. Two, TV is much bigger in the individual consciousness of about 90% of people than I think any of us can completely fathom——until you have a TV show. I don’t watch TV because it’s banal in some ways and predictable in others but to other people it is near-God. That means that being on TV with promote you, elevate you fast Very fast. Being on consistently for years will make people familiar with you in unexpected ways. I’ve been stopped on the bus, in the streets, recognized in lobbies.
It’s never gotten weird or dangerous but I do take a moment to assess the person, listen to my instincts. Most people are grateful—-the work, my work, the work I’ve presented of others has helped them in some area—-a guy wrote me about how my book on relationships—-Good Men for Men——he followed it religiously and found a relationship!—-which infused me with a sense of joy.
In person workshops I do cover a huge gamut of topics, I wanted to transport to TV, expand the audience, help more, do more—-and I’ve accomplished that——so I’ll encourage you to think about what you’re putting out on the airwaves and cable and streaming. I’m very conscious about the consciousness of my work. Thinking about branding and fame/popularity across so many platforms, I’m very thoughtful about the work I put out. I’m honest, I’m myself, I’m direct but I’m not purposefully graphic or produce salacious material to garner attention and that presses me to look at how I present work about LGBTSGL issues and sexuality, race, business, writing, finances, etc. in a way that is both accessible, accurate and useful.
One of the reasons why I chose a 28 minute, single episode a week format was that I didn’t want to have the churn of 5 episodes a week—-260 a year. and I also didn’t want to do a salacious show, I wanted it to be substantive.
Extremely Hard-Creating Substantive Programming
Like the LGBT Issues in-series occurring now, I wanted to create programming that was useful, educating, valuable and most importantly had some longevity to it Which is one of the reasons why I’ve strayed away from pop culture issues, politics because those episodes get dated faster. In a hundred years dealing with emotions, meditating, learning, good books and movies, cultural issues, financial management, sexuality——all of those things will still be relevant—-so I aim for stuff to turn into episodes that are good ten years ago and will be useful in ten years. That then converts back to a long lifespan of a product and all I have to worry about is repackaging (like the Best of The Oprah show episodes on Discovery. See, I told you I get excellent mentorship from Oprah/Harpo, Inc.!)
Which means that yes, I might have hundreds of episodes and classes that I’m digitizing or ready to go but I think about how to produce it at this next level. TV is one form, video another, streaming another, blogging/vlogging another so the raw material changes or has to change and grow. I also try to produce complete bits, try some things out, try out some other things rather than just do a massive dump of a library onto the internet. If you create a show, whether non-fiction or fictitious, you’ll have to consider how you 1st distribute it and then redistribute it or chop it up. It will work better if you chart out a general plan or how things all connect in and then branch out.
The methodology I usually attach to a new branch is can I make a 10 year commitment to it—-to books, to videos, to bogs, articles, vlogs——10 years. Now the beauty comes at about Year 5-Year 10 where your Content Library is so expansive that you can drop say 100+ items onto The Kyle Phoenix Blog on Quora and open up a whole new audience, get new opinions and reactions and even isolate the most popular stuff or mix and match the media types. Which is why when I can interview in a freer way after COVID dies down, I will be able to shift the timeslots of the show form once a week to five times a week and have interviews and chunks of in-series to broadcast. The hardest part of a TV/cable contract is you have a certain amount of hours you have to fill to keep your timeslot so you want to remain fresh and thoughtful and not just spewing pabulum.
But the upside is that you increase viewership, notoriety and exposure by being on 5 days a week—-probably for 2–6 years.
To that broader point on social media, it takes time to establish presence there, it took time for me to get to top spots or even just you type in my name and my work appears. It’s like tilling a garden and slowly year by year expanding it a few more acres from the center and then a few more and a few more. Which is why I’m thoughtful about contracts and partnerships because I’m looking at will this partnership last (their platform) for multiple years, if something goes wrong or they suddenly break up or cut me off, how can I repeat or replace them?
Whether it’s hashtags or mentions or thousands of videos or blogs, you have to look at it as brick by brick by brick to building the Wall of your media business. And even as fun TV it’s still business. Take it seriously from the get go.
How And When Does It End?
15, 20, 25 years?
You must have a sense of knowing when it will end, how to end it, when to try a new venture. Which means doing things in long term planning but incremental steps.
I have in-series chunks planned out and contract shifts and ends known and therefore re-ups planned out. Again looking at my next Harpo-esque move with the whole Content Library or a substantial part of it. Which is why I’m thoughtful as to not dropping 600+ episodes onto YouTube—-I’m sure eventually Ill slowly integrate hundreds from goal of multiples more, but I have a few thousand other things-videos, to drop first. Remember all of your content, synergized will (should) lead people back to the rest of the content—-I think of it like a giant web.
The goal, which I’ve semi-reached, is to have this web of products, materials, videos, books, articles, blogs, vlogs, that are numerous—-thousands (we’re at about 4000+, with plans to multiply that)—-on stable platforms, where I have minimal upkeep and just sloth off a penny, a thousand pennies, a million pennies, while the material—-and this is important——is worth hundreds of times more, intangibly, than the monetization. I think that the past/current and future profits have been generated because I try to create products where the item/engagement itself is worth 100x the cost, in a person’s life.
If you can conceive the above, start by mapping it out and situate your TV show, whether informational or entertainment, or a hybrid (as I work at—-edutainment) I think you can have a good, interesting TV show (even from public access) streaming, on cable and beyond!
#KylePhoenix
#TheKylePhoenixShow
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